I spoke with Dr. Brandon Yarns, a geriatric psychiatrist at the VA Greater Los Angeles Healthcare System (VAGLAHS) and an Assistant Clinical Professor at UCLA. We discussed the treatment of chronic pain for older veterans through a group format derived from ISTDP principles known as Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy (EAET), as well as emotion-focussed therapy more generally.
This was our first time meeting, so the conversation begins with gaining a clearer context of Brandon's research interests and the development of EAET groups. We then move into more exploratory territory and talk about group dynamics, challenges with emotional literacy in culture at large, the medical model, promoting a patient's agency, the role of grit in the face of the unknown, and overcoming the mind-body gap with patients and other health professionals. In that sense, it is a rather wide-ranging conversation that touches on many topics. There is still so much detail to drill down into, and I have a million leftover questions about group dynamics, working with moral injury & guilt with veterans, and shifting broader emotional and wellbeing literacy to a place where the emotional landscape is considered a fundamental arena of change - for the body and physical symptoms, too. I look forward to more conversations with Brandon in the future to do exactly that.
I hope this dialogue provides you with an introduction to his very important work, and I encourage you to look up his papers and check out his youtube channel for more:
Youtube channel:@BrandonYarnsMD
UCLA profile (includes list of research papers):
profiles.ucla.edu/brandon.yarns
More about EAET and how to facilitate these groups:
unlearnyourpain.com/product/emotional-awareness-and-expression-therapy/
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Dr. Brandon Yarns, MD
01:49 Research Focus and Career Path
03:31 Clinical Trials and ISTDP
07:22 EAET Development and Implementation
10:36 Group Therapy Dynamics & Psychodynamic Focus
18:50 Mind-Body Connection in Chronic Pain
25:40 Emotions, Emotional Literacy, & Mental Health as a Trope
35:30 Emotion-Focussed Care & Mind-Body Connection in Medicine
38:43 Helping Patients Make Mind-Body Connections
44:19 Challenges with Traditional Medical Models
45:46 Shifting Mindsets in Healthcare
49:37 Shifting Mindsets Within Psychology
52:12 Patient Agency & Empowerment
01:01:59 Grit in Therapy
01:07:50 Conscious & Unconscious Resistance in Groups
01:15:14 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions
- Emotions & chronic pain in groups of veterans: Dr Brandon Yarns on ISTDP principles & EAET ( Download)
- Semel Grand Rounds, 2021-07-20, Dr. Brandon C. Yarns ( Download)
- We can do better than managing dizziness & other symptoms (feelings are key) w/Dr. Brandon Yarns ( Download)
- How to combine emotional and cognitive work to help chronic pain patients ( Download)
- Q and A with Allan Abbass and Howard Schubiner IEDTA Oct 7 2021 r 1 ( Download)
- Chief Researcher of Dr. Howard Schubiner talks Mind Body Symptoms ( Download)
